Exp Lost On Death doesn't work in 2025.

Hi Folks,

The Developer said people could not sustain maps because they would die, A LOT.

He made a point of saying "Die, A LOT"

The answer they came up with to sustain maps is to give people 6 portals and maps that drop will now be at least the same tier that you are on or higher.

Devs...

Doesn't that mean people have the chance to go back 6 times on a map that has already killed them (Lost exp x 1) to risk 6 deaths (Lost exp x 6).

Many will be triggered by first exp lost, if that gets to x2,x3,x4,x5,x6.

The EXP penalty wears people down over time. Each death makes wanting to continue a harder choice to make, until you log off and leave the game.

When many players hear 2.0 is out, they will ask if the exp death penalty was removed. Whether they come back or not may entirely depend on its removal.

Anything that gives the player a PENALTY for playing the game, will cause a very large percentage of players to move to the next Game.

Diablo, POE and Last Epoc are not the only games that give that feel good hit when you find a new best in slot item. Almost every game has that model now.

I loved Diablo 2 back when I was a teenager.

However, Diablo 2 was the only game with that model. You had to keep going back in to roll the RNG dice, there was nowhere else to go. Diablo 2 forever?

Devs...

It's 2025, there are hundreds of other games with that same ARPG model now.

I play an ARPG called, TFD. The Final Descendant.

I told a streamer that TFD isn't a Looter Shooter it is an ARPG.

You start with NOTHING then grind a lot for the character and weapon modules, but once you have all the best modules for character and weapon you 1 shot the boss.

That's straight up the power fantasy that is the backbone of all ARPG models.

The streamer paused and thought, but then all looter shooters would be ARPG's.

I didn't reply, I thought I would leave him with that thought.

It is 2025.

It's time for exp lost upon death to go away.

Do yourselves a favor, there are just way too many games out there for people to leave and go play these days. You won't retain players by punishing them.

People argue this all the time. I will never accept a game dev deciding my time is to be wasted. I think the other half-dozen death penalties punish you enough but to punish you so that you would have been better off not logging in? JFC.

It's stupid.

What will keep the player longer?
- Stressful activity associated with risk
- Non-strenuous activity that is not associated with risk

The developers of all games have long realized that players are held back by an "emotional swing". Such swings are possible only if there is a risk. The risk in this case is loss of experience.

Even now, you don't have to lose any experience by leveling directly in the campaign. You are completely safe, you get experience. No punishment.

The other player takes a risk and goes to a place where they may lose experience. If successful, he will get it more than you without risk. Everything is fair. Or he will lose experience because he took a risk, and you will not, because you are safe. Remember "South Park"(train on boars).

The problem with the whole situation is that players and developers see the game differently. This does not mean that one of the sides is "bad". This explains the cause of the problem.

Players obviously feel that they are being deprived of content, putting barriers before reaching level 100 and killing all possible bosses.

The developers obviously believe that there is no deprivation, but there is motivation for those who are ready to overcome difficulties.

But since it is the developers who have a direct impact on the game, it is their responsibility to explain the rules of the game to the players. So the fact that players perceive the penalty at death in this way is largely developer's fault. This does not mean that the design of the mechanics is bad. This means that it's a bad design of how it's explained to the player.

P.S. They've taken the experience out of the equation on the most difficult content. Play to your heart's content.

The reward part is missing from the equation. We have what, 5, 6? Death penalties stacked up with xp loss, map loss, currency juicing, loot on the ground, tower tablet etc.

Where is the reward for not dying? 0.02% of a level for one point? Possibly a currency or two? Do this 200x w/o a single death and you'll probably get a reward. One death and it's gone.

"

Die_Scream#5464 wrote:

The reward part is missing from the equation. We have what, 5, 6? Death penalties stacked up with xp loss, map loss, currency juicing, loot on the ground, tower tablet etc.

Where is the reward for not dying? 0.02% of a level for one point? Possibly a currency or two? Do this 200x w/o a single death and you'll probably get a reward. One death and it's gone.

Thus, the problem is not the loss of experience itself, but the fact that the risk/reward ratio does not give "fun".

And thus, reducing the risk by removing the penalty equalizes this ratio.

The problem is that you come to a situation where there is no penalty and no reward. And who will play it?

On the contrary, to improve the risk/reward ratio, you need to increase the reward. Give more experience, more loot.

Give us back 6 fucking portals, why is that so hard???? This is why everybody run meta builds, cuz one death is annoying, you cant make some build for fun...

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Radonegsky#6656 wrote:

What will keep the player longer?


Even now, you don't have to lose any experience by leveling directly in the campaign. You are completely safe, you get experience. No punishment.

And sure enough the place where there is no exp lost upon death is the very place 100% of the player base agree is the best part of the game, The Campaign.

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Radonegsky#6656 wrote:

But since it is the developers who have a direct impact on the game, it is their responsibility to explain the rules of the game to the players.

That won't be able to explain it. They try to call it resistance or push back?

Something along the lines of, "The Game is telling you that you need to go find more items at a lower difficulty and then return to this content."

Again, this won't work for a large number of people, they will just leave.

If your reply is they don't want 500k players on Steam, they will be happy with 10k players on Steam who like the Exp Lost on death then alright.

I can believe 10k or more like the challenge of the exp lost on death.

Many of those play broken builds or for many hours per day so the exp loss penalty is lessoned by how quickly that group will regain that lost exp.

If you lose a day's worth of exp (depending on your available play time) for 1 death it hurts A LOT more than the person who gets it back in the next hour of playtime because they are just zooming through maps in their broken build.

For 1 player it may be enough to quit, for the other it is an irrelevant bump in the road. If their build is broken, nothing will stop them hitting 100.


The Penalty isn't equal to everyone. The Playerbase it hits the hardest will say, nope, not wasting any more of my time on this, quit and not come back.

asfaik every arpg has exp loss on death.

IMO as a scrub, mark said some players die a lot and they need to learn and adapt during campaign, that makes sense you die to a boss in act 2?
maybe you didnt know the patterns,
maybe you should dodge roll more often...
check the vendors to get an upgrade...

thats good most times these tips work...until you hit maps

the only "adapt and learn" after the campaign is one shot everything or get insane amounts of defense or both did you die during maps?

you should know the pattern now...but it wont matter because packs charge at you at the same time getting you cornered.

dodge roll more often...oh whats that? you aggro another pack you got swarmed?

checking vendors? no way youll get an upgrade, better alt-tab go to trade site...spending more time to get what you need...

I didnt try shields but since they dont block AoE and guess what, most enemies do aoe Im sure it will be the same with the upcoming parry

I wish deaths would more often like "I could have blocked that attack" or I wish I had more time to move away" (without getting blocked by some obstacle)


TL:DR most times player die we dont have enough time or options to do something about it, ADAPT as mark said = get better gear and kill everything in one shot

I'm ok with xp loss on death...

Since we don't lose level as Tibia (lolz)

The game after lvl 85 gets harder, and I like the difficulty increase over time.