Casualized to much? Fun ended? vision breaked?

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galloper#2354 wrote:

Dude, try other classes, esp those with zero decent builds, not the meta stuff.

And what's that with everyone talking about campaign all the time. It's like 1% of the game for me. Mapping and endgame bossign while hoarding riches is where all the fun is. If you don't get it then the game's not for you probably. Pure and simple, just being honest.
Jonathan's obsession with campaign leaves a false impression on people who watch those interviews that it's something, like, important to the game. It's a bloated "tutorial" before the real game, that's what campaign is and what it'll ever be.

Bro, he literally said he used leap slap the whole campaign and you're talking about meta skills...

Also this dumb take again that campaign isn't part of the game, are you high?

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abeheron#4366 wrote:

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saashaa#5518 wrote:

From prespective of a person who liked harder,
Most of negative reviews now coming from people who liked the designs but they maked tons of nerfs on monsters and difficulty to make casuals feels safer

and as harder games are not the main-stream - poe 2 as a hard game cannot be successfull no matter how good it will be so i guess they chosing money and popularity over quality

...

For the people who liked vision of poe 2 - What do you think ( really people who liked it and not casuals who wanted game to have more loot like in diablo 4 and poe 1 zoomers).

I like the original vision as presented in the 2nd exilecon (I was even pro-white mobs not filling flasks), but I think it is a losing battle and you are on the money here. Easier/cookie-clicker games like LE/D3/PoE1 are always going to be more popular and make more money. More scarcity based games (like Ruthless mode, which I adore) are played by roughly 10% of the PoE population and...the developers. It is obvious many of the GGG devs (as Johnathan had affirmed for himself personally) prefer the slower playstyle/progression. It is also obvious they are not the majority and/or winning side. And GGG doesn't have the backbone to keep to the vision in the same way, say - FromSoft - did when asked for 'easier difficulty modes' in Dark Souls. We can see there is no backbone with how quick the reaction to Ziz shitting his pants at the wolves in the 2nd zone was.

This leads me to the conclusion that without backbone to stick to the vision, and with realization that faster/loot explossion/progression games are more popular/lucrative in the short term - that by 1.0 this game would look a lot more like D3/LE than PoE2.

If/when that happens - there is always NoRestForWicked to try out, and maybe opportunity for smaller studios to try that kind of vision and gain a following.

Very true.

Already between 0.1.0 and 0.2.0 i could feel a shift in term of campaign difficulty, whatever the doomers(streamer sheep) or streamers would say (gnagna i dont have my mirror item in day 2, i cannot showcase broken build after 10 hours) it was easier, and mind you i play huntress when they were all saying, it does not do damage (GGG even buff lightning spear pls....) when i had no problem along the way(no problem with loot as well).

I since run 3 alt, even doing a coop run and the campaign became even more trivial almost D4 level of trivial (Not LE level let's not exaggerate),
and my friend is new to POE and is doing his own thing with cold sorceress, for his mental sanity, he is not checking streamers or forums, he could not understand when i told him people were crying about difficulty as he was cruising through the game.

The catastrophic Zizaran interview lead to even more nerfs to monster and buffs to player, We are now back in POE1 territory in term of challenge and like you i enjoy it less.

If they continue like this, 60% of the passive tree will be obsolete (defensive side, stun and ailment defense for example) and we can see most of the top builds are not even trying to add defensive layers into (boring crit - acc stacking)

There is no masterpiece created when the artist is trying to cater to the mass and forget his "vision" (doomers like this word so i use it :D)
There would be no "ethics" from Spinoza if he would have been trying to cater to the religious extremism of the society and the masses in the XVIIth.

You do not see fromsoftware devs chatting with Streamers like GGG is doing and probably for the best, unfortunately they should not do it and just stick to their original idea because to my opinion, they would have created something exceptional that we would remember for ages.

Money corrupt the soul.

Isn't it sad that the only thing this game's worth is based on is difficulty? If it is hard and I die a lot - it is a great game, pinnacle of RPGs. If it is too easy - it is trash and casualized for the sheep. It is quite telling that PoE 1 was never measured entirely based on that. Because it has infinitely more substance.

I sort of want to know the level range that is being talked about and the build used as my experience is a lot different with plenty of random one shots and definite difficulty spikes when playing with friends. (2 or 3 players makes bosses a lot harder ^^) I personally am up to level 89 and see plenty of cases where random one shots can eliminate hours worth of work in a second. Maybe it is the curse of the majority of dex gear being evasion based so when evasion fails the damage hits insane levels at times.

I played through the campaign in a group with my friend. I am a lightning spear amazon and he was a minion based lich. (He has switched to a ranger now with an odd freezing spear build). Some bosses were definitely troublesome in a group and we both had spells where we could feel that our gear was not keeping pace as we leveled. The rng on gear drops both during campaign and into endgame is very frustrating at times.

I would have preferred to have farmed or crafted all my gear but eventually had to go to trade to get a decent weapon upgrade and a shield that was needed for the primal strike / shocking leap / lightning spear build.

My personal feeling is that some of the bosses need further work to lower the frustration level especially in group play (Queen of Filth is a good example that still does massive damage and can be hard to dodge in the tiny arena you fight her in.)

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Isn't it sad that the only thing this game's worth is based on is difficulty? If it is hard and I die a lot - it is a great game, pinnacle of RPGs. If it is too easy - it is trash and casualized for the sheep. It is quite telling that PoE 1 was never measured entirely based on that. Because it has infinitely more substance.

this, this, and this. so many people, who i'm not even sure are thinking for themselves, hyper focus on the difficulty argument.

but the people who want a challenge have all sorts of ways to increase the challenge.

they can play an off meta build.
they can super juice maps.
they can play solo self found.
they can play hard core.

so maybe it's not about the challenge at all. maybe it's just a way that some people make themselves feel better, to flex over noobs, so they appear to be superior.

all to often the arguments are pure hyperbole.

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Brizzyne#6502 wrote:

I sort of want to know the level range that is being talked about and the build used as my experience is a lot different with plenty of random one shots and definite difficulty spikes when playing with friends. (2 or 3 players makes bosses a lot harder ^^) I personally am up to level 89 and see plenty of cases where random one shots can eliminate hours worth of work in a second. Maybe it is the curse of the majority of dex gear being evasion based so when evasion fails the damage hits insane levels at times.

I played through the campaign in a group with my friend. I am a lightning spear amazon and he was a minion based lich. (He has switched to a ranger now with an odd freezing spear build). Some bosses were definitely troublesome in a group and we both had spells where we could feel that our gear was not keeping pace as we leveled. The rng on gear drops both during campaign and into endgame is very frustrating at times.

I would have preferred to have farmed or crafted all my gear but eventually had to go to trade to get a decent weapon upgrade and a shield that was needed for the primal strike / shocking leap / lightning spear build.

My personal feeling is that some of the bosses need further work to lower the frustration level especially in group play (Queen of Filth is a good example that still does massive damage and can be hard to dodge in the tiny arena you fight her in.)

I will speak about the campaign only.
I play a very basic warrior (Earthquake - aftershock) and my friend mercenary grenade(him first time playing POE).
It was extremely trivial to the point of being not super fun.
I really do not understand the issues you are mentionning in group play, it is even more trivial than it was when i solo the campaign for 0.2.0

If you remove the last remaining "frustration" (for you, i enjoy difficulty) then it becomes D4 or POE1 or even worst LE, no thank you.

it took 10 years for poe 1 to introduce ruthless, maybe this time they do it in 5

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SerialF#4835 wrote:

it took 10 years for poe 1 to introduce ruthless, maybe this time they do it in 5

Also Poe 1 was literally ruthless when it initially started. Much later in development and power creep rising, They've tried to reverse zooming but community didn't let them.

They have different kind of mission with this game, they're aware they can't sped up the game too much, because there is no way back and the mission is to keep poe 2 slower and keep Poe 1 fast to retain both audiences, and for some to give both flavours.

POE2 is two different games that are at odds with each other. Campaign encounters are way different than endgame encounters, but because endgame exists it makes it much easier to trivialise anything that precedes it.

Skills, passives and gear have to be able to deal with hard hitting dense packs of mobs and for a few select builds is readily available with a little RNG luck or for purchase through trade and scales well through the endgame.

So what happens is a really hard hitting combo of skills, equipment and early passive points breaks the only part of the game that was meant to be a challenge, but again only for a few builds. The further your drift from those meta skills or the worse your luck is with equipment the faster and farther your build will fall behind. This was my experience in 0.1 playing warrior the first time versus my second warrior that had solid equipment from the start.

My 0.2 experience I went in blind on Huntress knowing full well that it was going to be the strongest class in the game. I did diverge with a bleed based tornado build and chose ritualist over amazon which severely hurt my clear speed compared to going amazon lightning spear. It's viable yes, but quite a bit more clunky and slow and each time I progress my maps forward it gets a lot weaker.

For campaign it did fairly well, but it falls off fast in endgame, which is to be expected when endgame basically amounts to virtual crack in terms of what is going on. What we need is the endgame toned down in addition to the over performing builds reigned in while at the same time bringing skills that under perform so bad they aren't used to a state of somewhat viable.

The game is poorly balanced right now because the campaign and mapping are worlds apart.

Whenever threads like this pop up, I like to remind our self-proclaimed "pro-gamers" that POE1 and POE2 are not difficult games. They are easy games made for people who like to hold down one button and blow up 50+ monsters per second and then hoover up loot. You are not a no-hit Sekiro speedrunner, you are playing Vampire Survivors with better graphics and thus have no right to complain about "casuals." You are a casual if this is the hardest game you play. Terraria is harder than this game. Skull Cavern in Stardew Valley is harder than this game. You guys really need to take better advantage of those Steam sales to branch out and grow your gaming repertoire. Once you do you will look back on your days bragging about how hardcore a gamer you are because you played POE1/2 and laugh.

The actual complaints about POE2 is not about difficulty. It's about tedium, lack of loot, and one-shots. One shots don't make a game difficult, they make it tedious.