For what it's worth, here are my thoughts about 0.2.0

Sorry, it's another huge long post. I just couldn't condense my thoughts down any more.

I do think that 0.2.0 was a step in the right direction if GGG's intention is to make PoE2 feel like a completely different game from PoE1. Player power and speed were completely out of control in 0.1.0, and needed to be reined in if combat was going to be meaningful. But the Herald abuse meta of 0.1.0 was papering over some pretty fundamental problems with some of what GGG have built here, and 0.2.0 has removed that paper to really reveal the flaws. That's not a bad thing; being able to see the flaws enables them to now be addressed, and we're still only at the second release in an early access process which is going to run for at least the rest of this year. There is time to fix the problems, but GGG have to really acknowledge those problems, and commit to actually fixing them.

Problem #1 is that they've cribbed too much from PoE1's homework in order to get to this point.
Spoiler
E.g. the Archnemesis mods for rare monsters, which are needed in PoE1 to balance the power and speed of the zoom-zoom meta builds that dominate that game. GGG have pretty clearly signaled that PoE2 isn't going to be nearly as zoomy, so why do we have so many mechanics that simultaneously slow the player while speeding up the monster *and* preventing the player from fighting back, *and* also doing a bunch of unavoidable damage? Why do those populate randomly on monsters at any stage of the game? They've blocked the life regen mod, since that just makes monsters unkillable at the level of power we're being given, but why is that mod in the game at all?

Content which the player can opt out of can be random like this, but having a monster which randomly turns off your build, *and* can't be escaped because it's all over you, *and* doesn't even drop anything decent if you do manage to kill it... that's not a fun and rewarding challenge, it's just randomly and arbitrarily hard.

This includes the Trials, the structure of which just layers multiple layers of random bullshit on top of each other, and then drops that in the path of players' progression like a roadblock. We're supposed to learn from our failures and try again, but how do you even do that when the thing that killed you was multiple layers of RNG bullshit that you might never see again? How is a trial in which success is easy if you high-roll and impossible if you don't supposed be a test of our skills?

Yes, PoE1 is a great game, but it's a very different game, and if PoE2 is going to continue evolving into a very different game then they need to stop copying stuff over from PoE1 and just built from scratch for PoE2.

GGG's second problem is that they're approaching the design of things like skill gems, support gems, and unique items the same way for PoE2 that they do for PoE1: it seems to just be stuff they think is cool, which they're dropping into the game for us to figure out the uses of. In PoE1 that works because PoE1 is full to bursting with other stuff that any new stuff can bounce off and interact with. PoE2 doesn't have that much stuff yet, which means that any new thing added should be intentional: it should have an intended use, or solve a specific problem that players are having. Right now it's just far too random.

GGG's third problem is that they've forgotten what the word melee means. They're used to PoE1, where "melee" is just another tag for a class of AoE damage skills that scale off the weapons' damage, and not... you know... actual close quarters combat. Melee game play should put you toe to toe with the foe, not just using a melee weapon to create an AoE effect from a safe distance. This is why the Warrior feels so clunky, why Evoker monks were mostly abusing herald skills' AoE effects rather than actually striking enemies, and I think it's also why the Huntress is turning out to be a let down.

So that's my advice. No more copying from PoE1; everything added to PoE2 must be designed and built from the ground up for PoE2, and previous PoE1 copypasta should be completely redesigned or removed. Additions must also be intentional, whether the intention is to fill a gap in the game, or to solve a problem, or to promote the style of game play they're aiming for. Any mechanic they're putting on monster should proper signaling, conveyance, and counter-play. And melee must start to mean actual melee, not just AoE spell-casing with melee tags on, which is not what the word melee means.
Stay sane, exiles!
Last bumped on Apr 20, 2025, 11:06:20 PM
Yes, I'm still only in act 2. This is normal for me; I don't like to rush the campaign, which I am (mostly) enjoying.

I do have a few additional thoughts, though:

* Act end bosses like Geonor and Jamanra have about 10% too much health, and it's turning those fights from fun and challenging tests of skill into battles of attrition that are eventually only won by leaving the fight, grinding for enough XP or a skill gem or weapon upgrade to gain a few % more damage, and then coming back to win easily. This feels like a pacing issue; if we're able reach the boss arena, then we should already have the power we need to succeed in the arena, and we don't. Either give us slightly more XP so that our passive trees can be more advanced by the time we reach these bosses, or give us better drops so that we can pass the gear check, or something, but please make some sort of adjustment here. This isn't a new issue (0.1.0 also had this problem) but it's disappointing to see every other monster get a health adjustment in 0.2.0b, but have bosses still be this un-fun grind. Act end bosses should be high points of the experience, not just chores to be endured.

* Unique items don't seem to drop at all. Are there leveling uniques in the game? I feel like I should have found at least one by the time I'm halfway through act 2, but I haven't seen any. This also isn't a change (0.1.0 had the same issue) but I was hoping that the increased number of uniques in 0.2.0 might mean that you could be a little more generous with them. Apparently not, though, and it's a problem because it makes loot drops feel unrewarding.

* 0.2.0b definitely improved the feel of the game. Monsters are still dangerous, but they're not damage sponges anymore, and my monk feels more powerful now even though very little about my build has had time to change. Partially reverting the nerf on tempest bell helped here, ofc., but I do worry about what that will mean for build diversity. I suspect that we'll see very few Acolytes again in 0.2.0, simply because monks don't really have chaos skills that work well with their melee archetype, and Ice Strike once again appears to just be the best choice.

* Wisps are fun, but not rewarding enough. This appears to be an example of a PoE1 mechanic (Tormented Spirits) that I didn't actually enjoy there, but which was rebuild from the ground up to simply work better in PoE2. The simple fact that wisps 1) don't activate until you're ready to engage with them, 2) move at a pace that makes it relatively easy for slower PoE2 builds to keep pace with them, and 3) actively seek out a dangerous rare monster to empower rather than simply running away from the player in a random direction all make the mechanic fun to do. Blending the basic functionality of Tormented Spirits with the primal essence themes of Harvest and Affliction also works well. The only problem is that the empowered rare that ends your hunt doesn't drop anything good.
Stay sane, exiles!
Next up: The Trial of the Sekhemas. Yes, it's still bad, and with all due respect to Mark, the problems here are all structural.

1. Pacing is a problem.

If we can beat Balbala to get to the trial, we should be able to complete the trial, but once again, the end-floor boss has about 10% too much health, so I'm back to grinding to find another 10% damage increase somewhere. It's not the boss mechanics that are the problem: the fight is just a little bit too long, which transforms it from a fun challenge into a slog. This is not a new problem, but it is still a problem.

2. Trials are far too random for a progression mechanic.

When I heard Mark say in the Q&A that he thought the structure of the Trials was fine, but they were too repetitive and needed to be more random, I truly wanted to scream. This is entirely backwards; both Trials are bad because the structure of them is already too random, and failing a Trial because the game suddenly and randomly made your run arbitrarily harder is only fun if it's optional. Trials are not optional: we're going to have to complete both Trials, and they're both awful because they're stuffed full of random bullshit.

3. Honour is a sub-par mechanic.

It was sub-par in PoE1's Sanctum league when it was called Resolve, and it has not improved. I know that ARPGs are pretty much all pseudo-roguelike games of character progression, but adding an even more roguelike activity to the game which cannot be avoided is not good, and Trials cannot be avoided. ARPGs became so popular by being a slightly more forgiving version of a roguelike game; undoing that by making the game unavoidably even more roguelike, with no way to opt out, feels like a huge step backwards.

The rest of the game is full of challenges which we're expected to fail and then try again immediately, but the reason for that structure is that we're immediately able to go right back to the thing that just killed us and apply what we just learned from that experience. But in Trials, the thing that killed us was mostly just random chance - what are we learning from dying to different random nonsense, over and over, only to have our next attempt involve different random nonsense?

Structurally, this is not good.

4. Honour makes no sense thematically.

Why does surviving damage that would otherwise kill you cause a loss of Honour? How does that make thematic sense? If anything, it should be the other way round, with the player gaining honour for each room beaten, with boons and afflictions either increasing or decreasing the difficulty (and thus, the honour rewarded) of each room, and the total honour at the end of each floor deciding how much of a reward the player receives.

I will finish my two trials, eventually, but again it's just a chore I have to check off the list, and not a challenge that I'm actually enjoying. Adding more randomness to this activity makes its problems worse, not better; I don't want more variety in the Trials, or more content in the Trials, I want to spend less time in them. This is not a change (0.1.0 had this same issue), but this is one area where I honestly don't know if GGG have any clear idea how this feels from the players' perspective.

I understand that the Trials were a lot of work to put together, and that GGG are very proud of the work itself. But I don't think Trials are working in their current form, and I don't expect that the Trial of the Ancestors will be any different when it's added to the game along with act 4.
Stay sane, exiles!
Last edited by NicknamesOfGod#1810 on Apr 7, 2025, 7:05:21 PM
I agree with every single thing you talked about and pointed out.

In addition, every single time GGG talks about the trials my monitor is in danger. I know that they play the game, but sometimes it does not feel like it.
Last edited by Lugonu#1626 on Apr 7, 2025, 7:25:19 PM
A very long and detailed feedback post- I appreciate your time you've put in to point out important things.

Honestly, after 0.1 I was a bit sceptical if I should play 0.2 or not and I decided to enjoy Phrecia a lil bit more, as its just garantueed fun atm. I love it. I love PoE 1. I still followed the players feedback and reception on PoE 2 closely.

I love PoE 1 because the way it is designed truly makes me want to grind for more gear, gives me dopamine when my lootfilter tinks at the right time and everything I do (I play ssf) feels somewhat meaning- and useful. PoE 2 looks like a very slow-paced and highly experimental game right now. I think I will give it another chance, but not now.

[Removed by Support]

I hope that GGG takes players concerns serious and reaccess their order of priority. Yes, its early access, yes, its 0.something, yes it will need time. But my trust received some cracks.
Last edited by BenMH_GGG#0000 on Apr 7, 2025, 7:42:59 PM
"
the Herald abuse meta of 0.1.0 was papering over some pretty fundamental problems with some of what GGG have built here, and 0.2.0 has removed that paper to really reveal the flaws. That's not a bad thing; being able to see the flaws enables them to now be addressed
I do wish 0.1.0 didn't last nearly as long as it did. The devs were cowed by pushback from power chasers who were copying the broken thing moments before it got nerfed. Pushback because respec'ing is expensive (which is fine on release but not for early access). Now player expectations are set into thinking 0.1.0 was the norm when it wasn't. Better to have announced what was going to be nerfed then hit it a week later instead of 3 months.

"

GGG's second problem is that they're approaching the design of things like skill gems, support gems, and unique items the same way for PoE2 that they do for PoE1: it seems to just be stuff they think is cool, which they're dropping into the game for us to figure out the uses of. In PoE1 that works because PoE1 is full to bursting with other stuff that any new stuff can bounce off and interact with. PoE2 doesn't have that much stuff yet, which means that any new thing added should be intentional: it should have an intended use, or solve a specific problem that players are having. Right now it's just far too random.
Mmm, disagreed that everything should be added with intent. I am seeing numerous support gems that are intentional, solving specific problems there were in 0.1.0. It's fine for some to be more experimental, gets players and devs thinking more. Inventions can't be planned for.

"

GGG's third problem is that they've forgotten what the word melee means. They're used to PoE1, where "melee" is just another tag for a class of AoE damage skills that scale off the weapons' damage, and not... you know... actual close quarters combat. Melee game play should put you toe to toe with the foe, not just using a melee weapon to create an AoE effect from a safe distance. This is why the Warrior feels so clunky, why Evoker monks were mostly abusing herald skills' AoE effects rather than actually striking enemies, and I think it's also why the Huntress is turning out to be a let down.
Disagreed there, PoE 1 melee was near-instant speed, giant AoEs and a non-interactive block chance with a tiny window to press a retaliation skill button. I don't see that at all in PoE 2.

Warrior dies if he tries to do the big AoE with zero preparation. The first stage of the fight is facing 50 fast mobs charging at him, he needs to shape the terrain (shield wall, glacial bolt, frost wall), slow them down (earthquake, spear field, whatever is available), get some allies to tank (totems, companion, etc) and only then does he get the chance to do the big wind-up AoE. The second stage of the fight is dealing with the yellows left over. Again, cannot just do the big AoE. Warrior is smacking away (or shield bashing) close enough to touch face to set up a pin/stun before being allowed to do the AoE safely. This is appropriate STR style melee: huge swings once earnt.

Monk and Huntress are DEX style melee: they dash into face-slap distance fast, then get out (or parry) fast before the enemy react. I'm discarding the herald abusing from 0.1.0, it's a thing of history. What's left is having to make continuous decisions of when to strike, when to defend and build up for the pay off AoE. At least, if their DPS isn't overpowering enemy life or freeze threshold.

"

both Trials are bad because the structure of them is already too random, and failing a Trial because the game suddenly and randomly made your run arbitrarily harder is only fun if it's optional. Trials are not optional: we're going to have to complete both Trials, and they're both awful because they're stuffed full of random bullshit.
As I understand, one trial is required to get all your ascendancy points. That you happen to be able to do two trials just speeds up your access to your 2nd pair of points, but they should be obtainable by doing one trial to the 2nd boss. Now is it greatly beneficial to get those points early? Yes. But is it compulsory? No, it's something you can look forward to. Is it right to make the player wait? That's the design debate indeed.

"

It was sub-par in PoE1's Sanctum league when it was called Resolve, and it has not improved.
Hard disagree. You couldn't guarantee blocks in PoE 1. The first tier of the Sekhema trials has extra telegraphed, slow attacks that don't cost you Honour if you hold a shield up. Very different to Resolve where you were dashing around like crazy to avoid being in range of large enemy AoEs or just outright cheesing by throwing mines around corners. The randomness of the trials are what mods are applied. The monsters and types of room quests are known quantities you can build for. Most of the Sekhema mods amount to penalising you for making existing mistakes, not creating new mistakes.
Oh, hey, people commented on this thing. That was not expected, so thanks @Lugonu#1626, @Artemsis#7135, and @Schverika#2698 for taking the time to read all my rambling.

Now, back to the rambling....

We're up to 0.2.0F hotfix 5 at this point, I think, and positive changes have definitely been made, so thanks to GGG for all their hard work. I am still playing the game, and haven't jumped to Last Epoch, which I think speaks to the fact that I am, on balance, still mostly enjoying myself. I can't help but wonder how much more time I'd be spending actually playing, though, if I were able to enjoy more of the experience, which is why I'm offering all of the (hopefully) constructive criticisms.

This is in no particular order, and I haven't grouped into neat sections or anything, so apologies in advance for the terrible reading experience.

Spoiler
I'm now through Act 2 (yes, still going very slowly), and the Jamanra act-end fight was exactly as much fun as I expected, which is not very much at all, for exactly the same reason as Geonor: These bosses are still about 10% too tanky, and it turns what would otherwise be an exciting high point of the experience into a chore. Mechanically, they're fine, and I enjoy learning and beating the mechanics, but learning the mechanics just isn't enough the way these fights are tuned, and I find that I'm spending days away from the game whenever I get to one of them simply because I just don't have that much energy. Yes, I am old enough to be grey already, but I don't think that's the only reason for this.

I do think that reducing the health on these bosses is probably better than just turning up our damage by the same amount, because most of the act areas getting to these boss arenas feel relatively well-balanced (with some caveats, which I'll get to). Turning up player damage would just trivialize the rest of the campaign, but still leaves the act-end bosses feeling like they were air-dropped in from some other game, which doesn't sound like a solution. I want to have more fun beating these bosses, and I feel like that's GGG's intention, but we're not there just yet. They're close, but it feels like they're about 10% off.

Being reasonably far into Act 3, I can say that the problems with Archnemesis mods are still problems, and I'm still firmly of the opinion that all of the AN mods need to be removed and replaced with mods that were designed from the ground up for PoE2's intended pace. Either we need to act and move faster, or the monsters need to stop slowing us down, or something, but something needs to give here. Again, rare monsters should be fun and exciting things, and right now they're mostly not.

The other problem with AN mods is that they mostly have terrible signalling and conveyance, and often very little in the way of counter-play. In PoE1, this wasn't a problem since monsters mostly didn't have mechanics that we were expected to learn and counter, but in PoE2 this lack makes them feel wildly discordant. Maybe that's the solution? Turn each AN mod into an active skill that the monster has to use, complete with an animation to signal that use to the player? That would be a ton of work, though.

The fast monster swarm problem is still a problem, too; it's better now, but it's not fully fixed yet. I do appreciate the work that was done in 0.2.0E on this issue, and especially the fact that they looked at, and adjusted, monster behaviours on a case-by-case basis, which shows solid attention to detail, but it still feels like too many monsters are too fast, and also too tanky, while also hitting like F150s. Act 3's Diretusk Boars leap to mind here; put a Mana Siphoning mod on that one of them, and fun dies just before my character does. More work is needed here.

Next, the Trial of Chaos... it still sucks, and I like it even less than the Sekhema Trial. I will eventually get lucky, and be presented with just the right choices of modifiers in the right order to work for my build, but the sheer randomness of this Trial is just so not fun for an activity which we essentially have to do. I will get it done eventually, just like I did in 0.1, but I'm not enjoying it.

And yes, I know that technically I could just run the Sekhema Trial repeatedly to get all my ascensions, but that Trial also sucks, and you only get a reusable quest-item Barya for the first of them. Having to grind for multiple baryas, which don't drop that often, in order to take multiple cracks at a Trial that I'm not really enjoying in order to eventually beat it, is not much of a choice, even compared with the Chaos Trial. Neither one is fun, and I seem to recall both Mark and Jonathan saying that weren't trying to coerce us into doing things that weren't fun in order to progress.

BTW, I'm glad that Warriors are having a better time of it this time around. I haven't played Warrior yet, so I can't comment on whether e.g. active shield block makes the Sekhema Trial into a fun experience, but I've seen enough Warrior players complaining about the Trials on the forum to have my doubts on that score. I'm not having so much fun that I'd want to roll another character this league, though, so that experiment will likely have to wait for 0.3.

Basic crafting is still lackluster. If we're meant to be picking up whites and blues to craft, then regals, exalts, and artificer's orbs need to drop more often to make that possible. Disenchanting rare drops does not make up this gap, and has the side effect of making a rate drop feel bad because you just know that you're going to be disenchanting it rather than using it.

I'm starting to wonder if the basic crafting currencies don't just a need a rework -- maybe allow augmented orbs to add a mod to any blue item (including items that already have 2 mods), have regal orbs add mods to any rare item (rather than adding a single mod to a 2-mod blue), and have exalted orbs raise the tier of all mods of any rare item? That would make both augments and regals more useful, have exalts be more than just jumped-up regals, and make crafting more enticing in general. Maybe. They'd need to make similar-ish changes to essences, too (with lessers working like neo-augments, and greaters working like neo-regals).

Drops also feel really stingy in general, but 0.2.0G is supposed to address that aspect of things, so we'll see how drops feel after that patch goes live. Fixing drops might make Wisps feel like they're worth the added risk of running them; right now they're not, in no small part because of the Archnemesis mods that the final Wisp mod randomly receives in addition to its Wisp bonuses. I still like the basic design of Wisps, but I've already stopped engaging with them.

The belt and charm changes do make charms a little more useful, but charms still need work. Are rare charms a possibility? They're just not very impactful right now. One change which might improve them is to remove the charges, and instead give them a cooldown -- a charm which can't be up 100% of the time, but which will always protect you if it's off cooldown, would be so much better than the existing system. Right now, I'd rather have utility flasks back, along with the instilling orbs that let us automate them, flask piano and all. It wasn't great, but it was noticeably useful, which is not something that I feel from my charms.

On a related note, do we know how quickly flasks and charms regain charges when killing monsters? I don't know if this is working properly, but I'm still having to run back to the Well more often than I'd like, and it's breaking up my flow. It's a tiny thing, I know, but still. Also, I think we could use some reliable way to regain flask and charm charges during boss fights; PoE2 bosses don't seem to have much by way of adds which would normally fill this gap, and it might help with the "10% too tanky" problem, by giving us a little boost to our own resources that equalizes things a bit there.

Another random gripe: it is possible on a player death to respawn only the monsters, without resetting the entire area. I killed an AN Wisp-empowered rare, watched my very first unique item of this patch drop, and then died to a DOT which was still running. Feels bad, man; GGG, please fix this. I'm OK with having the entire area be full of monsters again, but I would like a chance to grab that juicy drop which I had earned by killing a really tough thing.

The added stash tab affinites are very nice. Moving charm slots from explicit to implict mods was a good change.

OK, that's it for now. To be clear, I am still playing, and on balance I'm experiencing more fun than frustration, but the frustration is real, and it is inspiring me to play less than I would otherwise.
Stay sane, exiles!
Last edited by NicknamesOfGod#1810 on Apr 19, 2025, 2:27:40 PM
Still in act 3:

Spoiler
River Hags are ridiculous. I don't know why they have abilities that negate all of our defenses and resistances, and which also don't have any counter-play beyond avoidance, but even more than that I don't know why they spawn in packs. I encountered a pack with two rare hags, six blue hags, and a swarm of humanoid mobs (all of which were faster than me, and included extra blues and rates in addition to the Hags), and it sucked so much. I eventually managed to kite the fast movers away from the hags, and then went back and kited the hags away from each other one at a time, but the whole process took fifteen minutes and it wasn't fun at all. Why can hags spawn in packs? Why are humanoid enemies so much faster than the (still human) player character?

I'm now stuck on the Mother of Filth, and OMG I now know why Warriors are loving this patch so much. It's a great idea to have a boss that just uses skills that players can also have against us, but this boss is just brutal, and I don't remember this fight being such a difficulty cliff in 0.1.0. This is a progression stopper, too, since you have to clear this boss to progress the campaign, and she's just ridiculous compared to everything that led up to her. I'm OK with bosses like the one in Molten Vault being over-tuned because they're optional, but I don't know if I'm up to grinding the Apex of Filth for hours to level up enough to take down an unavoidable boss.

Done for today, I think. Maybe I'll have more energy for this tomorrow, but I feeling like 0.2.0F is slowly wearing me down. I might have to wait until 0.2.0G before jumping back in.
Stay sane, exiles!

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